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Post by Mark on Apr 11, 2006 12:44:33 GMT -5
Yes, I know.
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Post by twiggs on Apr 11, 2006 17:49:38 GMT -5
And you know Mark, it isn't even just the sexual abuse that goes on. Sometimes that is easier to idenify. The verbal abuse and manipulation that some parents use on their kids is also just as bad. My late wife, Jean, had a horrific up bringing. Her family looked so lovely. Church going folks. But what they did to their kids, you would not believe. It was like emotional balckmail. Of course I think they were mentally ill. It wasn't until their very late life and with the kids being adults that they were able to talk about it with the parents. Although I am not sure that helped much. Jean had lots of counseling to deal with it. Her brother is just like the father and her sisters seem to be ok.
Oh if everyone was as perfect as me. LOL
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Post by Mark on Apr 11, 2006 20:26:12 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there's more of that that goes on than not it seems, parenting not coming with an instruction book. I think that unfortunately, dysfuctional is more the norm than not.
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Post by Fluffy on Apr 18, 2006 12:17:09 GMT -5
And you know Mark, it isn't even just the sexual abuse that goes on. Sometimes that is easier to idenify. The verbal abuse and manipulation that some parents use on their kids is also just as bad. My late wife, Jean, had a horrific up bringing. Her family looked so lovely. Church going folks. But what they did to their kids, you would not believe. It was like emotional balckmail. Of course I think they were mentally ill. It wasn't until their very late life and with the kids being adults that they were able to talk about it with the parents. Although I am not sure that helped much. Jean had lots of counseling to deal with it. Her brother is just like the father and her sisters seem to be ok. My perspective is a little different. I was adopted at a time when, if the prospective parents were seen to be church-goers, Social Services turned a blind eye to what went on. As you say, the damage doesn't come to light until much later, when it is hard for the affected person to form positive relationships with people outside the family circle. My own experiences took many years to overcome and like your wife, Jean, a hell of a lot of counselling. I am actually quite wary of people who say they haven't been affected by the sort of parenting mentioned in this thread...
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Post by Mark on Apr 18, 2006 12:28:18 GMT -5
Somehow the Quote thingy didn't take right. But you're right, fluffy. Quite right.
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Post by Maria on Apr 18, 2006 19:33:58 GMT -5
Fluffy, I am very proud of you. It takes lots of hard work to undo the damage of a dysfuntional family. Although the professionals don't use that term any more because they say even a dysfuntional family, functions--just not in a healthy manner.
I think many of us have things in our childhood and adulthood that have injured us. I try to realize why things have happened and move on. I know it isn't always easy. Two steps forward and one step back.
Keep up the good work.
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Post by Fluffy on Apr 19, 2006 9:07:44 GMT -5
Thank you for your kind words Maria. Yes, you do have to move on and it does take a while before you can accomplish it, but sometimes you just have to dig your heels in and refuse to be beaten.
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Post by Mark on Apr 19, 2006 9:13:45 GMT -5
Right you are, fluffy. Although it is hard at times, one must indeed dig in one's heels, and each of us is different as well and cope as best we can. Someone once told me that if life gives you lemons, to make lemonade. I don't like lemonade, but I'll take a lemon pie. We're all different and approach problem solution in different ways that work for us best as individuals.
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Post by Fluffy on Apr 19, 2006 11:46:17 GMT -5
Or as the saying goes here "horses for courses"
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Post by Maria on Apr 19, 2006 20:32:05 GMT -5
Thank you for your kind words Maria. Yes, you do have to move on and it does take a while before you can accomplish it, but sometimes you just have to dig your heels in and refuse to be beaten. I agree with you Fluffy. And digging one's heels in can be very difficult for some of us but we are able to go on anyways. Takes lots of strength we often don't know we have. and Mark, I do like the phrase about lemons. It is sort of something that I often refer too. It has meaning for me. But I must admit a lemon pie does sound so much better. Of course it has to have a mile high pile of meringue on it. YUMMY
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Post by Mark on Apr 20, 2006 11:18:41 GMT -5
“That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post by Fluffy on Apr 25, 2006 8:55:01 GMT -5
May I recommend a good book dealing with this subject "Women survivors of sexual abuse in childhood" - I will try to find the author as I am having a senior moment! Anyway, it was a very difficult book to read in some places, but also a great help.
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Post by Mark on Apr 25, 2006 8:59:03 GMT -5
OH, I have those kinds of moments too... ;D
But I'm sure the kind folks at Amazon.com can locate the book with no problem. Thanks for the offering. Do you know if there's a similar one for males?
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Post by Fluffy on Apr 25, 2006 9:02:21 GMT -5
To be honest, much of the material in there would be appropriate for both sexes. I found the first chapter to be stunning and it took me several re-reads to take it in fully. Simple and yet devestatingly accurate.
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Post by Mark on Apr 25, 2006 9:04:10 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll research it fluffy.
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Post by Fluffy on Apr 25, 2006 9:11:52 GMT -5
I had a look on Amazon and there are a good few books around, although not the one I am looking for. If I do track it down I will let you know.
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Post by Mark on Apr 25, 2006 9:21:04 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll keep an eye out...
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Post by Maria on Apr 25, 2006 18:19:56 GMT -5
May I recommend a good book dealing with this subject "Women survivors of sexual abuse in childhood" - I will try to find the author as I am having a senior moment! Anyway, it was a very difficult book to read in some places, but also a great help. Fluffy, one of my good friends is a counselor that works with sexually abused children and adults. That book is one she recommends to both her female and male clients.
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Post by Mark on Apr 25, 2006 22:00:33 GMT -5
Do you know the author's name?
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Post by Fluffy on Jun 15, 2006 7:15:58 GMT -5
I have tracked down a book by Vera Gallagher (Becoming Whole Again - women survivors of sexual abuse in childhood). I found these notes the other day, and I think they may be from the same book, so I have copied part of the paragraph that really hit me the hardest.
"This fragile sense of self. If one considers the truth of the theory that we come to know ourselves through those that know us, I can see how my "self" has come to be so seemingly, inexplicably vunerable and, to some degree, non-existent. I don't know who, or what, I am. I feel that it is my place to be for others. It is a seemingly noble aspiration.
However, I have not learned the healthy meaning of this virtue. What I have learned is that I am "invisible". My wants, needs, desires and expectations simply do not exist, for I have never had them met. Thus, when I am for others, it is with total disregard of my own boundaries or needs. Indeed, I do not even acknowledge that I have needs, wants or desires. I used to feel pretty good about this. Then I learned that if I expect nothing, I get nothing."
Much of the rest of that chapter deals with the resulting lack of self esteem and anger that is felt by those who have been abused. It is a revealing and painful read.
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